There are lots of things I'd like to say about Packer's talk. For now though, I'll just post this with the hope that he reads my blog and watches this and that it melts his cold, dark and fearful heart.
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dude, what did i miss? what did he say?
ReplyDeleteyou are assuming he has one....-A.J.
ReplyDeleteIt was a doozy. I don't know what the video will do to his heart, but it definitely buoyed mine.
ReplyDeleteummm wow. just sat through some of the conference vid just for you jon. that was a really terrible talk.
ReplyDeleteSomeone I was talking to today called him "Boyd KKK Packer". It made me laugh out loud.
ReplyDeleteThank you for that video, Jon. That is the essence of true religion. I'm still livid about BKP's talk, but my hear is better for having watched that video. It's because of people and ideas like those in the video that the world not just survives but knows love, beauty and compassion.
ReplyDeleteIt is because of the bigotry, fear, and smallness of people like BKP that the world is too often violent, hateful and petty. His bitter words lead other small-minded, thoughtless people to hurt (spiritually, emotionally and physically). It's clear to me that BKP does not not true love.
If his goal was to purge the church, I think he'll succeed. But the people the church will lose are more and more of the honest in heart who can no longer stand the coldness, darkness and fear of BKP those like him.
yeah - his talk was not on my top five list BUT in our pursuit of compassion, are we not required to give him the same compassion we are seeking from him (even though he didn't give it)?
ReplyDeleteI feel compassion for BKP because he was raised in a different time and place with a very different mindset. He's also clearly too old to be of any use in bringing people TO the gospel. So there's a little compassion and a little pity there.
ReplyDeleteIf that guy's gonna be in the Celestial kingdom, I'll be only too happy to spend my first eternity elsewhere.
I have a friend who is getting ready to marry a man that nobody and I mean NOBODY is happy about. Her friends and family are concerned not only by the fact that she's marriage #4 to this particular gentleman, but by the fact that she doesn't even appear happy about it herself. When she asked her grandmother if she was going to attend the wedding in Hawaii, her grandmother's comment was 'I'm not going to spend that much money to go to a wedding that isn't even going to last.' Your first though would be to assume that she, too, is a cold, heartless individual, but if you knew her you would see that she wasn't. She's actually loves her grandaughter...a lot...but she has always been the kind of individual that speaks her mind. Especially when it is something that she feels very strongly about. I'm not saying that I agree with it, and I though that comment was totally inappropriate, but I still know that despite how things come across, she is surprisingly compassionate and accepting...with everyone.
ReplyDeleteWhen Elder Packer was giving his talk I looked at it like this grandmother's comment. Direct... to the point... and seeminly offensive to some who don't know who he is or how he is. That being said, I've also listened to numerous talks where he expresses significant emotion and compassion towards others. Today he was discussing doctrine of the gospel he obviously feels strongly about. He wasn't telling stories. He wasn't sharing emotions. I don't think he wanted this to be a 'soft' talk. He was expressing very strongly his opinion about a doctrine of the gospel that is unchanging. I realize this isn't going to be a popular comment, but I feel like there are two sides to everything. Elder Packer reserves the right to be as open about his opinion as other have the right to be about theirs. That's what makes people so wonderful and unique. That's what makes the gospel significant to me. I appreciate those who are able to share their thoughts and feelings, and are able to still respect the opinions of others. I love the message of the video you posted, Jon, and I think maybe if he were to watch the video he may change his approach, but I don't think he would change his commitment to what he believes. That being said, I wouldn't ever ask anyone to change their commitment to what they believe, even if it was something I didn't agree with. But that's what makes him, him. He's the grandma. But neither he, nor she, are bad people.....
i must needs check out his talk. empathy and compassion: how to bring an increase of them to the world?
ReplyDeletecheck out her brilliant and engaging talk at TED.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ted.com/talks/karen_armstrong_let_s_revive_the_golden_rule.html
Thanks Megann. :)
ReplyDeleteI think for me, it isn't that he's sticking to what he believes is true. For me, it's just that on the topic of homosexuality, there is so very little compassion coming from him. Compare that with what Marlin K. Jensen did with the church members in Oakland that I blogged about on Sept. 26. Elder Jensen also reiterated the church's stance and that it wasn't going to change, but there was an equal, if not greater, outpouring of love and compassion that just wasn't there in BKP's talk.
I'm not asking for a change in any stance (although I would gladly welcome it), I just want a little love and compassion.
i was busy eating candy and dancing around my bedroom.
ReplyDeletemy roommates think i'm bitchin now. and i'm all Back off homies. plenty to go around.
I absolutely agree and I would be lying if I didn't state that I cringed at some of the comments that were made by him, specifically referring to homosexuality. It is a personal topic that noone can truly understand until they have experienced it themselves. Over time my own feelings have evolved, not because I had a negative opinion before, but because in the last few years I've had several very close friends and family open up about it. Perhaps he's not had that experience. I don't know why he spoke the way he did, but it is disheartening to hear so many others have such extreme feelings towards him as an individual, rather than him as a speaker with a seemingly poor approach to the subject. I still respect him as an Apostle of the Lord, and know that he is, after all, just human. And yes, absolutely, each of us could benefit from exhibiting a little more love and compassion to everyone, every day. Thanks for your example, Jon!!! You're wonderful :)
ReplyDeleteI agree, if the conversation just devolves into name calling and Boyd bashing (which is very easy to slip into) it's just as unproductive as I believe his talk was. Like MNJ said above, at some point someone has to break the cycle, take the higher road and show some compassion. I think you're wonderful too, Megann. :)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot we don't know about how the Lord works. I agree that the church will probably never change their stance on marriage but I disagree that being gay or feeling attraction to someone of the same sex is learned and therefore can be changed. I haven't read the talk again, but I remember him asking "Why would the Lord do something like that?" I ask the same question all the time, but where he asks that question and concludes that homosexuality must be chosen, I ask at that question and conclude that God must have known what my life would be like. No one can say for certain how exactly we will be judged, because we don't know. All we know is that each will be judged on his own, with the Lord as his advocate. If you read the opinions of courts, you start to see that two cases can have a completely different outcome even if there are only slight differences between the two. Judges have the ability to bend and interpret rules given different circumstances. All the legal and judicial references in the scriptures are no coincidence. Who else can judge my life? If being gay is biological, which I believe and what science is now proving, what choice to gay people have? Is it really far-fetched to assume that the Lord is holding something back on this issue? That maybe we're not ready to hear that gay people will be judged differently? I agree with Jon there needs to be more compassion. We all know what's right and wrong. Pornography feels wrong to me, as does promiscuity. Genuinely falling in love with someone doesn't feel wrong. What I took away from yesterday's conference was a feeling of hope, that I and everyone I care about will be judged justly and that the Lord is very much aware of how hard it is to be gay and Mormon and will show infinite compassion to us.
ReplyDeletepeople thought the church would never change their stance on blacks and the priesthood.
ReplyDeletei hope bkp is the one who has to announce that the church has changed its proclamation to the family before he dies. it would be very humbling.
Thank you for this post, JonJon.
ReplyDeletePeople thought that the Church was becoming more accepting and understanding (e.g. "God Loveth His Children" pamphlet and giving support for anti-discrimination laws in SLC).
My suggestion to any Mohos out there, read "No Man Knows My History" and/or "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins". The lies go deeper than you know and its time to GET OUT!
I haven't read any of conference, but I have heard of the things he says. It doesn't want to make me Boyd-bash as I've been seeing. That's not my style. But it does want me to tell you something that God told me last week and that I think God would tell each of her children:
ReplyDelete"You are PERFECT. YOU ARE perfect, right now. Right here. You are simply perfect."
Love you JonJon.
I take comfort & courage in the fact that for every word he spoke that made me cringe or want to cry, there were millions of words between Saturday & Sunday sessions spoken by apostles and prophets that were filled with the essence of Godly love, hope, support, and peace. The brilliance of our lives as we choose to live those messages will eventually melt away the darkness and walls of tradition or ignorance or misunderstanding or judgment that is so easily spread or reported or repeated or lashed out among us all... You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...
ReplyDeleteI wonder what your thoughts are on this:
ReplyDeletehttp://beta-newsroom.lds.org/official-statement/same-gender-attraction
@ Anonymous - It's been a while since I've read that document, but I think overall it's a much more thoughtful and nuanced exploration of the topic of homosexuality than what Packer gave on Sunday. I also think Packer said some things that conflict directly with statements by Oaks and Wickman in the linked document.
ReplyDelete@Duque - I agree, there were many beautiful things spoken as well at the conference. The unfortunate thing is that for people outside of the church, Packer's talk is probably all they are hearing about.
@Stella - I love you too. I can't wait to do our Mormon John Hughes film where you get to be Ally Sheedy.
@CJW - I think there is something valuable to be learned in all of this. We just need to allow ourselves to explore and discuss and discover what that is.
Jon, I want to thank you for putting some of your initial thoughts and feelings up to start the conversation. I have several thoughts of my own, but will take some more time to put them together. For now, I've enjoyed reading your thoughts and others. Thank you for creating a safe place for people to share their thoughts and feelings.
ReplyDeleteCreating a safe place is my pleasure. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are, whether you post them on here or email them.
ReplyDelete